Thursday 16 September 2010

Mackeson - the details

What was I thinking? Posting about Mackeson but forgetting to include any tables. Lovely tables of numbers, still piping hot from the oven.

Can you remember the gist of my last Mackeson post? No. OK, I'll repeat it. The lactose additions don't feature at all in the brewing records. So the OG in the logs doesn't match that found by analysis of the finished beer.

Here's what the Gravity Books, Whitbread and Truman have to say:


Mackeson 1933 -1966
Year
Beer
Price
size
package
Acidity
FG
OG
Colour
ABV
atten-uation
1933
Mackeson Stout
9d
pint
bottled


1052.2



1933
Mackeson Stout
8d
pint
bottled


1053.7



1938
Mackeson Stout
10d
pint
bottled


1057.7



1943
Mackeson Milk Stout

pint
bottled
0.04
1020.7
1045.7
! + 28
3.22
54.70%
1947
Mackeson Milk Stout
1/6d
pint
bottled
0.06
1017.4
1040.3
1 + 14
2.95
56.82%
1951
Mackeson Stout
1/3.5d
half pint
bottled


1047.2



1954
Mackeson Stout
1/3.5d
half pint
bottled
0.04
1019.5
1046.6
1 + 20
3.49
58.15%
1957
Mackeson Stout
1/4d
half pint
bottled
0.06
1015.9
1046.3
250
3.93
65.66%
1959
Mackeson Stout (Chiswell Street gyle 248)
1/4d
half pint
bottled

1020.8
1046.2
250
3.27
54.98%
1959
Mackeson Stout (Stockport gyle 289)
1/4d
half pint
bottled

1019.7
1046.7
275
3.48
57.82%
1959
Mackeson Stout (Kirkstall gyle 117)
1/4d
half pint
bottled

1020.4
1046.5
350
3.36
56.13%
1959
Mackeson Stout (Hythe gyle 168)
1/4d
half pint
bottled

1017.8
1046
400
3.64
61.30%
1960
Mackeson Stout
1/4d
half pint
bottled

1019
1045
250
3.35
57.78%
1960
Mackeson Stout
1/4d
half pint
bottled
0.05
1019.2
1046.4
300
3.51
58.62%
1961
Mackeson Stout
1/4d
half pint
bottled

1019
1046
250
3.48
58.70%
1963
Mackeson Stout
1/5.5d
half pint
bottled

1019
1045
250
3.35
57.78%
1966
Mackeson
1/7.5d
half pint
bottled


1044



Sources:
Truman Gravity Book
Whitbread Gravity Book


This is what the brewing records say:



Mackeson Stout 1936 - 1963
Date
Year
Beer
OG
FG
ABV
App. Attenu-ation
lbs hops/ qtr
hops lb/brl
barrels
lbs hops
qtrs malt
boil time (hours)
boil time (hours)
Pitch temp
colour
26th Oct
1936
Mackeson Stout
1051.1
1017.0
4.51
66.73%
6.95
1.47
639
938
135
1.33
1.25
62º
18.5 brown 1 red
31st May
1937
Mackeson Stout
1051.4
1016.5
4.62
67.90%
6.95
1.48
317
469
67.5
1.25
1.00
62º
18.5 brown 1 red
1st Jun
1937
Mackeson Stout
1051.3
1016.0
4.67
68.81%
6.94
1.45
255
938
135.25
1.25
1.00
62º
17.5 brown 1 red
7th Jun
1937
Mackeson Stout
1050.8
1016.5
4.54
67.52%
6.94
1.45
647
941
135.5
1.25
1.50
62º
19 brown 1 red
19th Apr
1938
Mackeson Stout
1051.7
1016.5
4.66
68.09%
6.94
1.50
621
930
134
1.25
1.42
62º
19 brown 1 red
20th Apr
1938
Mackeson Stout
1051.5
1016.0
4.70
68.93%
6.94
1.46
105
930
134
1.25
1.08
62º
17 brown 1 red
9th Aug
1939
Mackeson Stout
1051.0
1015.5
4.70
69.61%
6.94
1.41
290
930
134
1.25
1.42
62º
19 brown 1 red
10th Aug
1939
Mackeson Stout
1051.2
1017.5
4.46
65.82%
6.89
1.43
380
937
136
1.25
1.42
62º
19 brown 1 red
14th Aug
1939
Mackeson Stout
1050.9
1015.5
4.68
69.55%
6.93
1.44
325
468
67.5
1.25
1.25
62º
20 brown 1 red
10th Oct
1939
Mackeson Stout
1050.9
1017.0
4.48
66.60%
7.40
1.59
469
984
133
1.25
1.50
62º
17 brown 1 red
22nd Aug
1939
Mackeson Stout
1051.8
1017.5
4.54
66.22%
7.40
1.59
469
984
133
1.25
1.50
62º
18 brown 1 red
10th Jan
1939
Mackeson Stout
1051.1
1017.0
4.51
66.73%
6.94
1.47
320
930
134
1.25
1.08
62º
18 brown 1 red
16th Jan
1939
Mackeson Stout
1051.7
1016.0
4.72
69.05%
6.94
1.50
621
930
134
1.25
1.08
62º
18 brown 1 red
23rd Nov
1939
Mackeson Stout
1051.4
1015.0
4.82
70.82%
6.89
1.46
90
937
136
1.25
1.42
62º
17 brown 1 red
27th Nov
1939
Mackeson Stout
1051.1
1016.5
4.58
67.71%
6.94
1.46
636
930
134
1.25
1.50
62º
17 brown 1 red
1st Apr
1940
Mackeson Stout
1051.5
1013.5
5.03
73.79%
6.93
1.50
611
915
132
1.25
1.50
62º
17.5 brown 1 red
3rd Apr
1940
Mackeson Stout
1051.6
1017.5
4.51
66.09%
6.93
1.50
608
915
132
1.25
1.17
62º
18.5 brown 1 red
9th Sep
1940
Mackeson Stout
1051.3
1016.0
4.67
68.81%
6.90
1.50
310
873
126.5
1.42
7:40 pm to 6:15 am
62º
19 brown 1 red
28th Sep
1940
Mackeson Stout
1051.1
1018.0
4.38
64.77%
6.92
1.49
603
896
129.5
1.25
1.5
62º
17 brown 1 red
6th Mar
1941
Mackeson Stout
1049.5
1016.5
4.37
66.67%
6.46
1.38
607
836
129.5
1.25
1.42
62º
18.5 brown 1 red
8th May
1941
Mackeson Stout
1047.5
1015.0
4.30
68.42%
5.90
1.18
647
764
129.5
1.25
1
62º
17 brown 1 red
27th Sep
1941
Mackeson Stout
1045.7
1014.0
4.19
69.37%
5.17
0.99
1361
1344
260
1.25
1
62º
15 brown 1 red
16th Oct
1941
Mackeson Stout
1046.1
1013.5
4.31
70.72%
5.17
1.02
1320
1344
260
1.25
1
62º
16 brown 1 red
6th Aug
1942
Mackeson Stout
1042.3
1014.5
3.68
65.72%
6.64
1.21
70
860
129.5
1
1.25
62º
18 brown 1 red
7th Aug
1942
Mackeson Stout
1041.5
1015.0
3.51
63.86%
5.10
0.93
712
660
129.5
1
1.25
62º
19 brown 1 red
28th Feb
1942
Mackeson Stout
1043.1
1013.0
3.98
69.84%
5.34
1.03
682
700
131
1
0.75
62º
14 brown 1 red
11th Sep
1942
Mackeson Stout
1042.0
1013.5
3.77
67.86%
5.14
0.92
716
660
128.5
1
0.75
62º
18 brown 1 red
9th Dec
1942
Mackeson Stout
1042.2
1016.0
3.47
62.09%
5.00
0.93
713
660
132
1
0.75
64º
17 brown 1 red
4th Feb
1943
Mackeson Stout
1042.5
1014.0
3.77
67.06%
5.00
0.93
712
660
132
1
1.25
64º
19 brown 1 red
26th May
1943
Mackeson Stout
1042.2
1014.0
3.73
66.82%
4.81
0.93
707
660
137.14
1
1
64º
17 brown 1 red
27th May
1943
Mackeson Stout
1042.3
1015.0
3.61
64.54%
6.29
1.16
80
860
136.7
1
0.75
64º
16.5 brown 1 red
28th May
1943
Mackeson Stout
1041.9
1014.5
3.62
65.39%
4.82
0.88
751
660
136.99
1
0.75
64º
17 brown 1 red
21st Jan
1943
Mackeson Stout
1042.6
1012.5
3.98
70.66%
5.00
0.93
706
660
132
1
0.75
64º
17 brown 1 red
14th Dec
1944
Mackeson Stout
1042.7
1011.0
4.19
74.24%
6.48
1.17
374
836
129
1
0.75
64º
14 brown 1 red
22nd Sep
1944
Mackeson Stout
1042.8
1014.0
3.81
67.29%
6.55
1.23
268
836
127.69
1
0.75
64º
15 brown 1 red
1st Jan
1945
Mackeson Stout
1042.5
1013.5
3.84
68.24%
4.87
0.87
723
630
129.32
1
1
64º
14 brown 1 red
29th Jan
1952
Mackeson Stout
1042.3
1010.0
4.27
76.36%
6.84
1.17
734
858
125.5
1
0.75
64º
13 brown 1 red
30th Jan
1952
Mackeson Stout
1042.5
1010.5
4.23
75.29%
6.84
1.19
404
858
125.5
1
0.75
64º
15 brown 1 red
7th Jul
1958
Mackeson Stout
1042.6
1013.0
3.92
69.48%
5.68
1.00
714
714
125.75
1
0.75
64º
250
10th Jul
1958
Mackeson Stout
1042.8
1013.0
3.94
69.63%
5.68
0.98
433
714
125.75
1
0.75
64º
275
13th Aug
1962
Mackeson Stout
1041.2
1013.8
3.62
66.50%
5.77
0.97
734
714
123.75
1
0.75
64º
250
24th Aug
1962
Mackeson Stout
1041.3



5.77
1.00
713
714
123.75
1
1
64º
250
22nd Aug
1962
Mackeson Stout
1041.0
1013.6
3.62
66.83%
5.77
0.97
251
714
123.75
1
1
64º
250
27th Sep
1962
Mackeson Stout
1041.6
1012.8
3.81
69.23%
5.91
1.00
1441
1440
243.75
1
1
64º
250
11th Feb
1963
Mackeson Stout
1041.3
1011.3
3.97
72.64%
5.93
1.03
699
720
121.5
1
1
64º
250
28th Aug
1963
Mackeson Stout
1042.7
1012.0
4.06
71.90%
5.58
0.96
578
678
121.5
1
0.75
64º
250
Source:
Whitbread brewing records

I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. No, more than I did. To be honest, it wasn't the most fascinating five minutes of my life. Not even the most fascinating of the last 10 minutes.

12 comments:

Craig said...

Hey Ron,

Speaking of stouts, have you ever come across any "Dublin Stout" recipes or even logs, brewed by other breweries than our friend with the harp above it's name? What made them stand out above the rest?

By the way I'm still working on the New World, Dutch brewing stuff.

Ron Pattinson said...

I've not seen any Irish brewing records.

I have seen information that others have gleaned from the records of Guinness. That shows differences it grists and brewing practices from London brewers.

Guinness went very quickly to a grist of just pale and black malt, while London brewers continued to use brown malt, too. And Guinness continued to vat some Stout and blend it into their standard Stout long after London brewers had abandonned the practice.

Craig said...

Quite helpful, the folks at Guinness are, I take it.

I guess my question stems from the notion (or myth) that Irish brewers didn't use hops until well after most other brewers had used them. I know MJ has made mention of a late arrival of hops to the island, but how late is late? Was there unhopped, 19th-century Irish beer?

Ron Pattinson said...

Craig, I'd be very surprised if there was unhopped beer in Ireland in the 19th century.

Craig said...

Okay, last thing and I won't bug you anymore. I've noticed on a number of charts, listing both Black and Roasted malt. My assumption is the Roasted is more in line with a Chocolate Malt and Black is Black Patent. Am I off base?

By the way, I was lying about the bugging you thing.

Ron Pattinson said...

Craig, black malt and roasted malt are two names for the same thing.

Barclay Perkins usually called it roasted malt, Whitbread black malt. Annoyingly, in the 20th century Barclay Perkins used both roasted malt and roasted barley, but often only put "Rd." in the log. You can only guess which one they mean.

Thomas Barnes said...

@Ron: Interesting but subtle change in historical terminology there, which you might need to make clearer.

These days, at least in U.S. brewing practice, "roast malt" is often taken to refer to things like chocolate, dark crystal or other highly-kilned malts, while the term black malt always refers to patent malt.

Ron Pattinson said...

In the old British records, roasted malt is the same as black malt.

johnk said...

Ron, I have a recipe for 1936 Mackeson at 51 gravity which I believe was taken from the original brewing record. I have brewed it a couple of times and it is a superb beer, nothing like the present day version. However I thought there might be a mistake in the amount of flaked oats that are listed, it seems too small an amount (less than 0.3%), I would appreciate it if you would have a look at your records and provide an update if you can help. The recipe by weight percentage is:
81.2% Pale Malt
7% Brown Malt
7.6% Black Malt
0.29% Flaked Oats
3.4% Lactose

Ron Pattinson said...

johnk, I can see without even checking the records that that recipe isn't correct. By the 1930's Whitbread had abandonned the use of black malt. And all their beers contained sugar.

This is the grist of a brew of Mackeson mademsde on 26th October 1936.

pale malt 53.40%
brown malt 7.85%
choc. Malt 7.85%
MA malt 18.06%
no. 3 sugar 8.38%
Duttson sugar 3.66%
oats 0.79%

Obviously this excludes the lactose, which should add another 7 gravity points.

Why is there such a small amount of oats in the grist? Simple. Whitbread party-gyled their Stouts and Porter. These included an Oat Stout. So that wouldn't be breaking the law, a minimal amount of Oats went into all their Stouts.

Even though this particular brew wasn't party-gyles, it still has an indentical grist to all their other Stouts.

johnk said...

Ron, thanks for answering my query. It’s surprising to see that at the time Whitbread parti-gyled their stouts and porters, I would not have expected Mackeson and oatmeal stouts to be derived from the same grists used for normal stouts and porters. The quantity of oats is so small that it effectively makes no difference to the beers produced, as you say only being included to meet the legal requirements of an oatmeal stout. In present times, I believe the general thinking is that oatmeal stouts should have a smooth, silky, mouthfeel derived from the oats, but at least for these beers in 1936, that’s just not the case. The unfermentable lactose leaves a limited sweetness which would at least give some difference between the beers and in the same way, different gravities derived by how the parti-gyle was blended would change the profile.

They included “Duttson sugar” as well as No 3 invert. I know Duttson was a manufacturers name, however do you or anybody else know what type of sugar this was. It’s only a small part of the recipe, but if it was a highly flavoured ingredient such as molasses or caramel, it might have a significant flavour effect.

One final point, you include a lot of tables in you writings, sometimes you include the grist details, but frustratingly you often don’t. There are a lot of brewers who follow your blog and I am sure that they would all appreciate it if you could try to include the grist make up when you can.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

Kristen England said...

Johnk,

I'm working this one up currently so you'll have the whole recipe at hand here in a few.

Kristen